Ep 75 How to Be the Boss of Your Own Health with Dr. Debbie Ozment

Debbie Ozment, DDS, MS, NBC-HWC, ABAAHP, has been a private practice
dentist since 1985. Her Masters degree is in Metabolic and Nutritional Medicine, and she trained at the Mayo Clinic to be a Nationally Board Certified Health and Wellness Coach. She has also completed the Bale Doneen Method Preceptorship for Heart Attack and Stroke Prevention and is a diplomate with the American Board of Anti-Aging Health Practitioners.

Dr. Ozment's practice is limited to oral-systemic assessment and therapy for chronic inflammatory diseases to enhance the outcomes of the medical community.

She speaks nationally to health professionals and corporate executive teams on vitality-related issues.

Dr. Ozment is passionate about building relationships with her patients and about reframing what it means to be healthy by spreading the word about functional medicine and its benefits.

She's an avid researcher and has even experimented on herself in order to gain more knowledge about the oral microbiome and how it affects the entire body.

"Being healthy does not need to be confusing, expensive, and no fun." ~Dr. Ozment


CONNECT WITH DR. DEBBIE OZMENT

• Debbie@DrDebbieOzment.com
• drdebbieozment.com
• Vitality Made Simple podcast
• TEDx Talk "The Forgotten Orifice" 

CONNECT WITH MANDY

• mandysawyer.com
• insta @mandycreativevision 
• facebook @mandyscreativevision

OTHER RESOURCES

• Viktor Frankl
• Dennis Burkett 
• CS Lewis
• Horace Fletcher
• Bronnie Ware

Kitcaster Podcast Agency 
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Transcript

Ep 75

Mandy00:01

Hey there you are listening to the dream big and kick ass podcast. I'm Mandy, your host. And I have so glad you're here. If you want encouragement, inspiration, support empowerment, then join me as we talk about real life stories of finding and following your purpose, overcoming adversity and living out your dreams.

If like me, you believe that life is too short to be caught up in insecurities fear and feeling defeated and hang out with me here and let's dream big and kick ass. I am super excited for today's conversation with Dr. Debbie Ozment, in case you don't know, I have been on my own health journey the past nine months, and I've met some amazing people along the way.

And Dr. Ozment is one of those. So when I first met her for my initial consultation, we immediately clicked and we talked for like 45 minutes before she ever took a look at my mouth. And when I told her that I hosted this podcast and asked her if she'd like to be a guest, she did not skip a beat before saying yes.

So I was super excited about that. Now, before I give you the low down on her creds and she has a lot of them, I want to say that this particular episode is really important to me because I want to be a part of getting the word out about functional medicine and encourage you to be your own health advocate.

If you feel like crap all the time, and you keep getting the same responses from your doctors like I did for years, that it might be time for a change. And it's hard to live a fulfilled life and pursue your dreams and goals that I believe God puts in our hearts if you don't feel well. So I hope this episode, enlightens you a little more, gives you some hope and empowers you to take care of the only body you're going to get on this earth.

Okay. So now to Dr. Debbie Ozment, D D S M S NBC HWC AB AHP. I don't know what all those things mean, but I'm going to give you a lowdown here. She has been a private practice dentist since 1985. After graduating from the Oklahoma university college of dentistry, she continued her education by completing a master's degree in metabolic and nutritional medicine from the Morsani college of medicine at the university of south Florida, she trained at the Mayo clinic.

She is a nationally board certified health and wellness coach. She has completed the bale Doneen method, preceptorship for heart attack and stroke prevention, and is a diplomat with the American board of anti-aging health practitioners. Her practice is limited to oral systemic assessment and therapy for chronic inflammatory diseases to enhance the outcomes of the medical committee.

Dr. Ozment speaks nationally to help professionals and corporate executive teams on vitality related issues. She also hosts a weekly podcast. Vitality made simple, which is available on all podcast platforms and she has a 14 minute Ted talk, the forgotten orifice. So here is my conversation with Dr. Ozment.

Hey everybody, I'm super excited for you to hear this interview with, uh, my new dentist and new friend, Dr. Osman. Thank you so much for being here, Debbie. I really, really appreciate your time.

Dr. Ozment03:15

It is my pleasure, Mandy. Thank you for inviting me.

Mandy03:19

You're welcome. Absolutely. So let's just jump right in. I would love to talk about, um, uh, you've been practicing for over 25 years, right?

Dr. Ozment03:26

So, oh my goodness. I think it's at 34 this year.

Mandy03:30

Oh, wow. Okay. So how let's talk about how your practice has changed over that period of.

Dr. Ozment03:37

Well, yeah, I started dental school in 1980. So in those days, uh, the math was just like, you know, out somewhere else. I mean, it was about fixing teeth sort of being a, maybe a carpenter in a way that was most of our work repair or fixing taking teeth out or fixing broken teeth.

Um, we didn't ever consider that, oh, wow, there's a body content attached to this. Now, maybe we should, you know, think about that too. Right. Actually early though, when I, when I was a senior in 85, there was, there were murmur murmurings that, uh, maybe the. Affected heart disease. So that's kind of a new thing.

I remember once in clinic, I said, well, why shouldn't we talk about is heart disease in the, my, my instructor was like, no, no, wow, no worry about that.

Mandy04:34

There was this resistance then of this pushback of talking about anything besides just fixing and repairing and making your mouth beautiful or whatever.

Yeah. That's interesting. So, okay. So when you first started, then you were doing like, I guess like what most people know when they go to the dentist, they take x-rays and they do a cleaning and then they just check for anything that's problematic or whatever. Um, so when did that shift for you?

Dr. Ozment05:01

Well, I had a very relational practice, so I never wanted to be like, you know, running room to room.

So I knew my patients pretty well. I started noticing these, um, these patterns that, you know, people that had different, uh, inflammatory diseases. I also noticed Mandy that people started taking more and more and more medications. As you know, when I was first in practice, maybe a six year old might be taking high blood pressure medicine.

Well, it's so different. Now I, 60 has a list of five or six things and they have all their different doctors and, you know, maybe the doctors don't even know each other who knows, but I started noticing that. And so, um, a, a came in the mail. 1315 years ago, uh, given by cardiologists on vast, it was on vascular inflammation and, um, it was an expensive seminar.

So I was reluctant to go, but I just felt like I need to go to this. I need to, I need to understand why this is happening and why

Mandy06:11

can you explain what that means? What

Dr. Ozment06:13

vascular? Well, there had been, you know, there were diseases that I was starting to see that we didn't even learn about in school, for example, uh, lupus, which is so common now as a, an auto immune disease.

When I was in school, I still have my notes. And literally I have like, you know, rare in middle-aged African-American women. I mean, that was, that was my whole information on auto-immune community in those days. So, so it was people would come in and say, oh, Debbie, now, you know, I just got diagnosed. Blah, blah blah.

I said, well, let me, I got to go look that up because it would be something new, but they were, they all had this inflammatory component. And then I just started noticing that people who had healthier gum tissues, I mean, gums that didn't bleed suffered way less from these chronic inflammatory diseases.

And then people who then people who, you know, really wouldn't pay attention to that. So, and then I started noticing to Mandy that we would get their mouth cleaned up and they would be like, oh, wait, that rash went away. And I was like, well, I got to feel, why is this happening? Um, uh, the cardiology class was, was incredible.

And, um, they talked of course about heart disease and gum disease, but they also introduced new technology. That was a saliva test or really simple. Swish test to look for the DNA of key bacteria in the mouth that could be affecting the body. So that's really what changed everything for me.

Mandy07:53

Right.

So you just like jumped into all that research and learning new things and putting all the pieces together from all of the things that you were observing in your own practice.

Dr. Ozment08:04

Yeah. We went back and tested, um, you know, all my team in which was small. I mean, I had only like four employees, my husband, my children were, um, teenagers. And interestingly in my own mouth, I had a bacteria that was like, yikes, what is this? And it was aspire Keat uh, and that's like a bacteria that has this course group.

Configuration, um, and those kinds of bacteria they burrow in and they're hard to get rid of. Well, I knew that I didn't have gum disease, so I started researching and, and in those there's way more research now, I mean, you know, fast forward 13 years or something. And so, um, I found that it, that it can develop in a failing root canal.

And, um, I had one root canal, my mouth, it looked fine on x-ray it didn't hurt. Uh, but interestingly, Mandy, my husband, like I had say this much, he had a little bit, I found that that bacteria is transmitting. Transmissible trans kissable, so back and forth. And so I literally called my oral surgeon Fran and said, I'm going to get my tooth out.

I'm just going to do an experiment here. Let's see, let's see if you know where this is coming from. So I got my tooth out and I mean, at the office, they were like, what are you doing to have, you're getting to, to, you know, we're all about saving teeth, right? Yeah. We know, like to take them out. And, uh, bet I reached, tested myself three months later, Mandy, and all the bacteria was gone in my, on my chest and all the bacteria was gone on Mike's test.

So it made a believer out of beat with transmissibility and, uh, and the importance because that particular bacteria likes to burrow in the blood brain barrier. That's one of the places it likes to hide.

Mandy09:57

So what barrier?

Dr. Ozment10:01

The blood-brain barrier.

Mandy10:02

So can you explain that.

Dr. Ozment10:04

Yes, uh, between our, between the we've always thought that there was this impermeable barrier between our brain and our body that would protect our brain from, you know, any pathogens, you know, fungus viruses, bacteria.

Um, we thought that that, like I was taught in school that that was, uh, an impermeable barrier, like a wall that you couldn't scale, but we know now it's semipermeable and, and bacteria can invade that barrier and make it not kind of have holes in it basically, and things can get through. Uh, so, so of the, at the bacteria that we test three have been found, uh, the DNA of those three bacteria have been found in the blood-brain barrier.

And the one that I had in my failing root canal, which I didn't know is failing because it didn't hurt. It looked fine on x-ray. Um, that it was, it was there and who knows, you know, I mean, we've got to it early and I'm so thankful we can test, we can test and not guess. Right. You know, what we're dealing with.

Mandy11:09

Right.

Okay. So talking about that saliva test, that's the little swish test that I took at Dr. Miles office. And that's how we found out that well, that, and the other, the GI tests that I think we'll talk about a little bit. That's how I found out about the fusobacterium bacteria. Am I saying it?

Right.

So that's what I was kind of segue into, you know, you're big time researcher and I love research too, and I'm not, I don't have the creds that you have, but, uh, I definitely love, you know, getting in there and trying to figure things out.

So what's, what's the biggest thing that you're researching, right now?.

Oh, my

Dr. Ozment11:44

goodness. It's it has to do with fuso bacterium, because that's an oral bacteria that starts in the mouth, it has to be treated at a map, but it travels to the, get in the, gut, it just causes all kinds of problems. I mean, you remember, we talked, we laughed at it.

I call it the mother-in-law bacteria because I love my mother-in-law. We just lost my mother-in-law in fact week before last. And, um, but you and your mother-in-law's awesome. If she just dies for a little time, if she starts moving things around and telling you what to do and taking over the household, it's a problem.

Well, that's sort of what fusobacterium, um, does at low levels. It's almost a beneficial bacteria that as it overgrows, it causes havoc in the gut. So my, so that, you know, that's been kind of. That's really very much what I do, but I've learned recently that fuse up bacterium in the get can cause a person to be resistant to chemo therapy.

So in other words, say a person had, was diagnosed with breast cancer or colon cancer. One of the common chemotherapeutic agents is called five Fleur Eurocell, five F-you. If anybody who's listening knows someone who's had a cancer and had chemotherapy, they have likely had a five F-you as one of their chemo therapy drugs.

And there a ton of new research Mandy, about how fusobacterium over. Causes the cancer cells to be resistant to that chemo.

Mandy13:29

Wow.

Dr. Ozment13:30

Oh, it's so big. So for now, when I have a patient who's getting chemo, I send them this packet of research to give to their oncologist. It's in the, it's in the oncology journals.

I mean, this is, you know, you're asking sort of like where I like to look. I really just have med, Google scholar just search you kind of have to nowadays think of exactly what you want to know about. So I'll put in because there's so much, yeah. There's so much like chemo resistance and, and fuse of bacteria, nuclear item.

But, but, oh my goodness. Just think of the implications of that, because it's a pretty easy thing to clean up. I mean, relatively, you know, if you know, you have it, you can deal with it. And, um, but, but if you don't know, you have it, you're like, well, that chemo didn't work. I wonder why it's just another.

Another thing. And of course, cancer is such a big deal right now. This is another thing when I was first in practice, there wasn't that many people there weren't that many people with cancer. I mean, even older people, but it's really

Mandy14:37

right.

Well, and my mother went through five years of colorectal cancer and two rounds of chemo a round of radiation and five major surgeries and multiple hospital stays and on and on and on.

I mean, she has a permanent colostomy now and, you know, it's, it made me wonder, like, does she have this fuso bacterium and did this, you know, initially at least play into that.

Dr. Ozment15:07

Exactly. I think you're, you're so precisely correct. You know, play into that. It's not one thing it's not just the oral bacteria impacting chronic inflammatory diseases or memory loss or, or miscarriages or auto-immunity, it's all these different pieces that this is an essential piece that we easily can disconnect because it's white teeth in a fresh breath and, you know, pleasant smiles.

Right. But it's so much more than that.

Mandy15:42

Yeah,

absolutely. So, okay. So let's talk about the, we talked, I think you mentioned the microbiome. What does that mean? Some people don't are not familiar with that term yet microbiome, because it's all connected. You're talking about the mouth connected to the gut and it's all connected to the brain and all this stuff.

So what does that microbiome thing, what does that mean?

So

Dr. Ozment16:02

think about your mouth. And as the beginning of a tunnel that goes clear through your body, it's really almost a hollow tube and ending of course at your anus. And this tube is where you, you either absorb nutrients, uh, or excrete get rid of toxins, right?

It's, it's a, it's a tube that's essential for every piece of. Uh, vitality of, uh, thoughts, everything. Now, when you think micro-biome what we know now is that it is loaded with bacteria and these are bacteria that have their own DNA. They have, you know, they're, they're, they're separate from us. I mean, this is a host.

Some people estimate six to 10 times as many cells as we have. Um, in terms of how many bacteria we have in our body. And these sales all have jobs. So some help produce hormones, some help digest food, um, you know, some help produce neurotransmitters, others help decrease inflammation, but we have to respect the, the bacteria, the biome meaning kind of a living soil.

It's it's very much like having a garden. Yeah. You know, a living soil. And so depending on, well, everything Mandy, and this is why you're so often met with your, I love how all the different topics you cover on your podcast, because everything affects that microbiome. It's not just food, it's not just water.

It's also emotions. It's also sleep. I mean, anger affects the microbiome is a big deal for the microbiome. You think about, um, how people react to stress. Some people get diarrhea immediately because people to get constipated. I mean, the microbiome, these bacteria are very aware of everything going on with it.

That's when you have to keep those little buggers busy, uh, I mean, uh, happy and somebody can stay busy doing what they need to do because there's bad bacteria in there too. So, so different things, different habits feed either the good guys or the bad guys, is that clear.

Mandy18:29

Yeah, I think

so. I think so. So why isn't anybody out, like in traditional medicine, you go to the regular doctor or whatever, and I don't mean any disrespect at all for any medical professional whatsoever, but why is it that nobody generally is talking about this kind of thing, like the few bacterium or, um, all the different tests that I have taken lately, by going to a functional medicine doctor, they were not offered to me, not even mentioned to me by a traditional medical doctor.

And so, and I know that the functional medicine works to try to find the source of the problem. Um, just like what you're doing. Um, instead of just addressing one symptom here, one symptom there, and like, let me throw it a prescription at you and see in six months after our 15 minute consultation or whatever, you know, Like, do you find that there's not, not very many people in the regular world of medicine that are talking about this stuff or is it just functional medicine people or is it, is it starting to spread kind of

like, yeah.

Dr. Ozment19:38

Yeah. I think, I really think it's starting to spread and I'm, I'm an optimist. My glass is always half full, so I'm always hopeful. And there, so there are more and more people getting interested now I'll have my patients take their, their GI map. They're still tests right. Either to their regular GI doctor.

And so many people come back and say, they said, wow, they've never seen that before, which is so shocking that it's just, you know, the, the world of getting this kind of information. This is new research. This is not somebody guessing. I mean, this is, these are, these are sophisticated tests that, uh, R S you know, not that expensive, considering what we find and considering conventional medicine and surgeries and chemotherapy and all, but the trip from, from what we've been doing forever.

And with the destination of functional medicine, I mean, that's a very slow moving train. It's very hard to get from research to the medical school or to the dental school. I think that's the, the big hangup. And then, and then you mentioned 15 minute visits. I mean, people just don't have a lot of time to do this.

And then people say, what is my insurance pay? I mean, you've obviously been a boatload of money that was not covered by insurance. And, um, so. It is growing. Uh, I, I, uh, decided to go back to school just to learn more. And then as a dentist, I wanted to make sure I had proper credentials. I, I, I don't move out of my lane.

I'm very, very careful to think of the mouth as the first part of the gut. And how do I heal through the math, but at these meetings, uh, I first went through a fellowship of the American academy of anti-aging medicine. And so when I started going, I dunno, say it was one X, well, the last meeting I went to, it was probably four X.

I mean, people are, people are really starting to pay attention. I was sitting next to the guy from when they're from all over the world, but that who was an ER doctor. And I said, what brings you here? He said, well, I'm getting sued. Uh, I work, I've worked in the ER for 10 years. A woman came in with knee pain and I told her.

That I, that she would feel better if she would get out and walk and she's suing me,because I'm not giving her painkillers. And he said, I just decided she just wanted a prescription. So, um,

Mandy22:23

but we're all conditioned to do that. Right,

Dr. Ozment22:25

right. That's right. Yeah. I can't imagine how many people in my 34 years at least say the first 15 that I prescribed antibiotics for without knowing if I really needed them, but that was standard of care.

Right. That was protocol and people wanted antibiotics. Yeah. And now, and now I'm so careful with antibiotics. And if I prescribe antibiotics, I'm working on their gut to, to help replace good stuff. Right. So, you know, when you, you know, you learn better, you learn better, you do better, you know, it's, it's all bad, but it is a slow moving train.

Mandy23:03

So then, then let's talk about we, we discussed this a little bit. Whenever I was, uh, first came into your office, but talking about my, my mom having so many different doctors, she's got a oncologist, she had a ready radiation oncologist. She had a gosh, her primary care physician. She had a kidney doc has a kidney doctor, a heart doctor.

Um, she had a surgeon general surgeon and she had a, uh, colorectal surgeon. She had, I mean, I think there's more I could go on, but like nobody talks to each other. Me bazonkers, nobody knew what the other one was talking about. And they would tell us different stories and I'm like, I can't, what do I do with this?

Dr. Ozment23:48

Right? No, it's hyper frustrating. I called a cardiologist a couple of years ago. A patient that was in, I wondered what her vitamin D level was. And, you know, that's huge for health, but it's huge for the math it's used for everything. So she said, well, I don't know, I'm getting a blood test today with my cardiologist.

Do you think you could ask them to tack that on? And I said, well, sure, I'll call right now. So literally this is a quote, um, and no disrespect, but just we're learning. I said, you know, this is, you know, Dr. Debbie Osman kid, my patient have a vitamin D test added to her blood test today. And there was this silence and the nurse said, why are you calling me?

You're a dentist. I said, oh, you know, just humor me, humor me, just, she said, well, insurance won't pay. And I said, send me the bill. You know, it's 30 bucks. I mean, send me the bill. So, I mean, it was hilarious. We just got the, I just got off the phone and, you know, made a bunch of

jokes about it because,

Mandy24:48

well, I'm glad you have such a good sense of humor about it because, I mean, gosh, that's, that's frustrating.

Dr. Ozment24:54

But as you know, as you were helping your mother and having this frustration, I mean, that's just horrible because people are getting different recommendations and maybe, maybe prescriptions that interfere with each other, uh, Yeah, we call it, I call it siloing, you know, in, in business and my friends in business, I talk about this silo effect in a big corporation where HR doesn't really know what manufacturing is doing.

Doesn't really know what the executive team's doing. You know, nobody's really talking and it all matters. Well, it's the same exact way in, in medical care.

Mandy25:34

Well, and I, yeah, and I experienced that in education as well. Like nobody really knows what the other

person.

Yeah. It's a big, huge monster system.

That's as frustrating as well. So, okay. We probably touched on this a little bit, but like in your experience, what are the biggest challenges dental professionals face? And I, I think one of them was like your story you just told about not being considered a professional, you know, in the medical field. I don't know.

Just what do you think? What is, what is your experience?

Dr. Ozment26:08

A big challenge is. What's being taught in the dental schools. I mean, you know, that's because this education costs a lot of money. It takes a lot of time. And, uh, for me it, the heavy duty education started when once our kids were driving, well, I couldn't have done it with little kids then also, Mandy, there's the, there's the insurance aspect.

I had a, a very relational, small practice and didn't, wasn't not relying on insurance, but, but even so people have good insurance and, and we could, they should be getting some reimbursement, but they're not paying anything on like, um, the DNA testing and, and it's, it's totally oral DNA. I mean, it's not, you know, there's no gray area here.

Right? So, so that's an issue because if people just have the. The mindset that, you know, whatever my insurance pays, but people like you, they've already gotten out of that mindset. And they're like, no, I want to feel good. Right. My life is important. I want to live my purpose. I want to go for my dreams. You know, I want to feel good to do that.

So I think, um, those are big challenges. And then there, then there's the time element in dental practices, just like medical practices. People have to decide to have different kinds of practice to really

Mandy27:31

do that's true. Yeah. So can you tell about some experience, more experiences when patients have come to you to get treatment?

They got answers that he couldn't, they couldn't get elsewhere like me.

Dr. Ozment27:42

Yeah. Well, thank you so much. You're so kind um, they, well, for instance, one thing that happened recently, a woman came to me who had had five miscarriages and she was like healthy. I mean, she'd been to doctors and they're like, oh honey, you know, this just happens.

And she's like this five times, five times, five times. So we did a DNA test and she, we looked at her, her pathogen, uh, got her cleaned up, um, you know, specifically, I mean, a very specific, you know, kind of a specific protocol for her. Well, uh, she sent me a text a couple of months ago of a five month ultrasound.

Oh. And a little baby girl. Um, you know, and so, yeah. Yeah. And she never forgotten. Three minutes. So that was exciting. Yeah. Super exciting. Um, and then even people, like another thing that happened recently, a woman came for high inflammation. She had, uh, there's a number that we measure and good functional medicine doctors measure C-reactive protein.

I know that, you know, that, that it's miserable con uh, acute inflammation, but it also measures it measures inflammation, chronic and acute, but her inflammation was high. And so Dr. Miles wondered if that was coming from her mouth. Sure enough. Part of it was we got that healthy. She had a tooth that had a, kind of a sneaky, hidden abscess got that taken care of.

And she called me and she said, yeah, I have lost 26 pounds. Oh my gosh. Yeah. Yeah. On purpose. I mean she wanted, you know, people kind of come in for pain, joint pain or, or, you know, certain specific things, not specifically weight loss, always. Now it's becoming more common because that's inflammatory bet. Um, that wasn't our, that, wasn't our objective, right?

That whenever your body is inflamed, it's hard to lose weight because you're you hold people hold onto weight. Your body wants to dilute toxins. So you have to, you know, it always comes down to detox. I mean, this is really detox to get the mouth healthy is helping to detox the body so that the body can.

Do what it's designed to do to heal,

Mandy30:01

right? Cause it's been overloaded with so many toxins that it can't do its normal functioning to get those toxins out. So

Dr. Ozment30:10

yeah. It's like Lucy and Ethel. Remember that older, you have the candy factory,

the detox picture I love, you know, so our body, so doing, getting the mouth clean and the gut cleaned up that's, you know, slowing down that conveyor belt.

Mandy30:30

That's a good analogy. I love that.

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So let's talk about your vitality mindset made simple podcast.

What, what made you decide to start that?

Dr. Ozment31:21

Uh, I guess to get the word out this too, but it's really not dental. And it's mostly just, I want it to be whole body, like you're doing, I want it to be, I want people to know it's not just one thing, right? It's not, you know, it's not just exercise. It's not just, you know, salad and drinks and water.

It's, you know, it's a lot of different things. So, so that was that's the objective. So I don't do that many, um, podcast on leading gums. If I put bleeding gums in the title, it's not one of the highlights, I guess this sounds

great. You heard

this one, but I want your opinion on something. Yeah. It's called vitality mindset made simple.

I think that's not a great name. I think I need to take mindset out. What, what is your opinion? I mean, your gosh, I think it needs to be called vitality made simple.

Yeah. I mean, you can totally just take out.

Yeah. I think people sort of think it's maybe just all a positive thinking or

Mandy32:31

right. Yeah. And it's much more than that.

It's much more detailed than that. You'd give a lot of good information about the research and stuff like that too. So yeah. I maybe just take mindset out, play with it. I mean, that's, that's the cool thing about having your own podcast is like you make the rules, you, you get to do what you want to do.

Right. Like I changed mine up. Um, cause I was posting every, an episode every Tuesday, then it just got to be a little overwhelming. So I took off, I took off the whole month of December and didn't post anything. Um, had things ready to be edited and stuff. I still have like six other interviews that I haven't edited yet.

And um, but I needed that time to just like chill a little bit, you know? And then I decided to go to just posting every other week instead of every. So I feel that that's been more this month, it's been more sustainable that way. So it's not so overwhelming. Cause there's a lot to doing podcasts. Like there's, you know, the interview, part's the easy part, that's the fun part.

Right. But then the editing and the getting it all uploaded and doing the show notes and do the graphics for it or whatever. And promoing it and stuff. That's a little

bit.

Dr. Ozment33:45

And I applaud you for that from the standpoint of self care, Mandy. Yeah. That's really what it was. It was.

Mandy33:55

I was like, well, I have almost 70 episodes at this point.

I can, you know, but again, it's like, it's cool that this is something that I decided to start, that I do, that nobody else is responsible for, but me and like, so I can make the rules. Right. You can, you know, I'm not so worried about how many downloads or whatever. I mean, I do want, you know, it to go, you know, I want to have a lot more people listening and it has grown gradually slowly over time.

But, but ultimately like I have to practice what I preach, you know? Right. I gotta, I gotta make sure that I'm focusing on. My health and taking care of me. Um, if I'm going to tell other people to do that. So

Dr. Ozment34:36

that's right. Easier said than done.

Mandy34:38

Yeah. Well, back to the whole, all the different pieces, like I, I imagine that your body and your health as a, like a 5,000 piece puzzle, like I used to love to do those puzzles, but like every single piece, all of it works.

So synergistically together in your body, like, God, God was amazing when he created our bodies. Cause there's so many different things that function and do things that we don't even know, you know, while we're sleeping and all that. And so it just, it can't be just one little puzzle piece to, to, to, to finish the picture.

You have to do all the pieces, figure out what, all the pieces, where they go and put them in the right spots. You know, it doesn't look right. So that's kind of how I've

been looking at it.

Dr. Ozment35:21

I think that's a great analogy. And I like to think of it, of our bodies as our relationship vehicle. Like this body is not going to last forever.

No, we were eternal, but the body's not going to, you know, it's going to get older, even in this anti-aging fellowship. I did. I always thought that's sort of a bad name. There's no, anti-aging, we can slow it down, but we're not going to stop it. And, uh, but if you, if you look at your body as just your vehicle for relationships to, uh, love, God love people.

To me, it puts that in perspective of take the best care, but relationships are what really matter. Yes.

Mandy36:03

Yes. And like, if you don't feel your best, how are you going to. Spend time with people and enjoy that time. And, and, uh, and if you're running, running, running, you know, on the hamster wheel all the time, what are you doing?

You know, I had to just stop and look at myself and look at my life. You know, I was knocking on 50. I was like, what am I doing? What is going on? Like, this is not how I wanted to feel. This is not how I wanted my life to be, you know? And so you have to start making hard choices. Um, but then in the end, like when you get on the other side of that choice, you're like, oh my gosh, it opens up so many other doors, so many other opportunities for you to learn and grow and, and meet new people and, and build those relationships like you're talking about.

So. Yeah. So what recommendations do you have for anybody listening who's who might be struggling to be heard when it comes to their health? Cause I did that for years and years and years. Good doctor after doctor, after doctor, like is telling them the same thing and they're just kind of dismissing me like, well, you're getting older or, well, your labs look fine or whatever, but I still felt like crap.

So what do you say

Dr. Ozment37:12

you, you did such an incredible job with that. You took, you took the bull by the horns and you know, took control. Uh, and I would say, be like Mandy, you know, ask, ask questions, find people who are gonna listen. Uh, if necessary change doctors, uh, don't don't rely on somebody else for your health.

No, it's got, it's gotta be that. You're the boss of you and you know how you feel. No matter if someone says, honey, honey takes them out on depressants, you're really not sick. No. You know how you feel. Right. So, so don't give up and know that there are answers. I mean, nowadays there are so many great tests.

There are so many, uh, good functional medicine doctors, people who are learning more and more talk, talk to your friends and don't be intimidated. I don't, I think a key is to not be intimidated by someone with credentials, right? Because credentials are only as good as if they're used properly. And uh, they're, you know, doesn't mean somebody really understands people or really knows what you need.

So, so be like Mandy, you know, ask questions, find a new doctor, uh, advocates don't

give up. Right. Yeah, do not give up to going, oh, well I guess this is just my life now. Oh, well I guess this is just how I'm always going to feel. No, there are answers out

there. We just have, there are answers, well case in point a patient who was having some serious brain fog, memory loss, uh, thought that, well, I'm getting, Alzheimer's like, you know, uncle so-and-so and, and, but what it was was leaky gut.

Yeah. They weren't, they weren't producing the neuro-transmitters they needed, they had, they had con they had, um, alternating, constipation, diarrhea. They weren't absorbing things. They weren't detoxing. So once their gut got healthy, their memory, their cognition resumed. So yeah. I mean, gosh, that's something to not give up on.

Mandy39:20

Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. So tell us about a humbling moment that made an impact on you.

Dr. Ozment39:28

Oh, well, in April. 2021. I was diagnosed with chronic lymphocytic leukemia and I was, you know, working hard on my health, but the crazy thing about it, it's really a gift from God. I see it as a total gift because a friend of mine who is an immunologist was installing a new lab and it was, um, one of seven labs that takes in the United States that, uh, looks at the immune system.

So this, this new kind of test, it looks at the immune system and, um, finds things early. So she said, Debbie, I want you to do this because at the time I was 62, um, you know, we walk five miles at a time you're healthy. You don't take any meds, blah, blah, blah. Let's see if your immune system's 50. And I said, oh, what if my immune system's 40 oh, food just like having all this fun.

And so I took all the chats and she said, would you be my media person for this? And just let me use your test. You know, as an example, I said, sure. So who, so she, you know, they took pictures while we're getting a blood draw. I was getting a blood drawn. Then, um, I get a text call me immediately snap. This is not good.

Something is wrong. And so she said, let's retest. So we did well, I have early, early, early it's called C, C, L L chronic lymphocytic leukemia. And my, my cancer cells were 2%. And so the oncologist, she wanted me to go to said, uh, no, I don't want to see her till she's sick. Sort of what we're talking about.

Mandy41:14

Yeah. That tells you that they're not about preventative maintenance or catching things early, or are they, does he, do they even know what to do with that?

Dr. Ozment41:27

And I said, she said, I'm sorry, this is so crass. And I said, you know, in his defense, he doesn't know what to do. His tool box is pretty small compared to, you know, what God has gotten me ready for.

I mean, I couldn't have, I mean, we're prepared. And so I started heavy duty detox, Mandy, and, um, you know, I started doing sauna. I started getting, I did Keala. I'm doing culation, I'm doing all these things. I mean, there's a lot is it's fun. It's all good stuff. It's all, nothing's painful. Nothing's, you know, I'll get stuff.

And so I got retested in November and my cancer cellsare down from 2% to 0.3.

Mandy42:09

Wow.

Dr. Ozment42:10

The physicians can't believe it. It's all. It's all about detox. Yeah.

Mandy42:14

Yeah. Yeah. That's amazing. Yeah. So like, I guess, because it's because it's an early test. Yeah. And nobody really has had that before and they don't really know, you know, what to do in that situation.

So let's hope that they start going okay. So if somebody comes to us and they with this new test, and they're not very far along, how do we prevent this from, from getting bigger and getting sick before we talk to them? Or before we,

Dr. Ozment42:45

yeah, I mean, why do we wait till we need a bone marrow transplant?

Our bodies are designed to heal. We just have to give them what they need, detox, what they don't need. Uh, one thing I've started doing is checking my blood sugar every morning with fasting blood sugar, because in researching CLL, an early sign is that. You become insulin resistant. So sure enough, my A1C, you know, the average of blood sugar was a teeny bit high.

It was still in the normal range. It still wasn't in pre-diabetic, but it was on the upper end. And so now check, I check my blood sugar every morning and, and I'm, and I'm more careful, you know, I'm more strategic. I should not missing out on anything. Delicious. I'm just more strategic. Yeah. So cool. Little things.

Mandy43:39

Nice. So let's talk about Bronnie. Where, what, who is that?

Dr. Ozment43:46

Um, Bronnie. Whereas one of my, um, my favorite people I've never met her, she's an Australian hospice nurse and she has spent lots of time with people dying. And so she's sort of compiled these five things that, um, were common and then the dying people.

And they're fascinating. I actually made a note because I think I told you I liked Bronnie. Um, so, so her, she calls them the top five regrets and you know, you're such a person of zest. I mean, you don't want to be at the end of your life and saying, oh, I should have, I should have started to podcast. Uh, you know, I should have, you know, followed my dream.

I should've kicked some ass. I should've you out. No, you don't. You want to, you want to live out your gifts. And so Bronniekind of confirmed that through all these people she saw. So the first one was, I wish I had the courage to live a life true to myself. So, you know, being true to yourself, true to yourself was her first.

Her, um, her second thing was, she wished she had not worked so hard. Well, what she heard people saying, he heard people saying, I wish people said, I wish I had worked so hard. Then people said, I wish I'd had the courage to express my feelings. And then what I love this, this one is great because we can all change this.

I wish I nurtured more friendships in my life when I met you, it was an instant connection. And that's just so wonderful to have radar for people with like minds that are fun and, you know, doing interesting things. So, but it takes nurturing. I mean, people have to be aware that friendship matters. And you have to, you know, try to do that.

And then the fifth thing was, I wish I'd let myself be more happy.

Mandy45:42

Yes.

Dr. Ozment45:44

I think aren't those great. B R O N N I E. I think she has. She has a book. I have it. I haven't read the book really, but, uh, completely. It's a little bitty book, but it's called the five regrets.

Mandy45:56

I'll have to get that. Yeah. Nice. So who or what motivates and inspires you?

Dr. Ozment46:02

Really?

My relationship with God. I really, I, I value my time reading the Bible. I want to not get stuck in pharisaical religion. I want to always be focusing on love God, love people. Yeah. And, and living outthe gifts he's given me and living in view of eternity. I mean, that's a part of it. I, that I think is essential to live life to the fullest.

That of course really came home with that diagnosis that we all have some diagnosis we may not know what it is.

Mandy46:36

I mean, I had one for a long time and didn't know what it was.

Dr. Ozment46:40

Yeah. Yeah.

Mandy46:42

Oh, okay. I need to change some things, not just thinking about it, but doing it.

Dr. Ozment46:47

Exactly. Yeah. It's it's, it's there. And then I have just these favorite dead guys.

I call my favorite. I love Victor Frankel. I love to read his work. I love CS Lewis. Um, Dennis Burkett, he wrote he's the fiber man fib E R he's like his motto. His motto is. Big stools, small hospitals small stools, big hospitals, like in the forties, you know, I mean, so this is through before drive-thru windows.

I mean, he's a smart guy. Uh, so anyway, I have quite a few favorite dead guys that were, they were brave enough to go against the grain, right. People who were brave enough to say no, I'm Galileo, uh, you know, Antwan Beshalom. I mean, who were, who were brave enough to say, I don't care what you do to me. No, I think it's this way.

I think this matters, this matters for people and you know, I'm not gonna just go along with

Mandy47:49

the status quo, right? Absolutely. So what big obstacle have you overcome in your life? Or did you already talk about that?

Dr. Ozment47:59

Oh, I don't know. Yeah. I mean, um, I don't know. I don't know if there's any, anything else to add to that learn to be brave or a voiceful I think, I think we have to learn that as we get older.

Yeah. Do to be, to be solid in what we believe.

Mandy48:19

Yeah, absolutely. So tell them about a mistake that you made or about a time when you had no idea what you were doing. How did it pan out and what did you learn from it?

Dr. Ozment48:27

Oh, well that would have been dental school. I was going to be like a basketball coach and, um, decided one day to go to dental school.

I came from a family that, uh, awesome parents, but they were really young when I was born. My dad was a teenager and had quit school and high school. And, um, so I just sort of one day decided I'm going to go to dental school. Didn't know. Anything about it, the family, I mean, we didn't even have anybody who'd had the opportunity to go to college at that point.

And it was, you know, 1980. So that was like, I didn't even think about it. Um, a lot of funny stories along those lines, but that, I mean, it's just all been great. It's just sort of been wide-eyed and curious and open to, uh, I think when one thing that, um, maybe God has protected me on is I've always been aware of what was important to me in terms of my family or my children.

So, you know, I had it just, uh, a small practice and got to know my patients really well. And then. That was wonderful. That's key. I think it was a satisfying life. And then three years ago I sold my restorative practice and now I do one-on-one treatment. And I love that too. Uh, but I think constantly navigating, like what is right for me, I've never been very, um, conforming.

Right. So I'm thankful for that. I think it's just, it's not any big thing. It's just how I am, but, but I'm, I'm thankful for that because it's given opportunities to go back to school and I never had like big debt or overhead or fancy office or anything that restricted the ability to go back to school.

Mandy50:37

That's awesome. So what is your vision for your life in the next five years?

Dr. Ozment50:41

Oh, goodness. Well, just to be getting to meet more cool people like you either grow the podcast and I really enjoy public speaking to corporate groups. I do some speaking to before COVID, you know, everything's right before COVID, uh, after COVID.

Um, but I love seeing patients. I love seeing, I love unraveling these mysteries and trying to put the pieces of the puzzle together and, and want to get the message out more. I want, I want people to know they can be the boss of their own health trajectory and to not give up.

Mandy51:15

Yeah, absolutely. So let's talk about your, you have a Ted talk what's what's that about?

Dr. Ozment51:21

Yeah. I thought it was a joke. Whenever it's the ones called me and said, I want to talk about a Ted talk. I'm like, oh yeah, right. I thought it was someone playing a joke on me. I said, I'll call you back later. And my husband said, Debbie, I think you might want to. I'm really serious. So, um, it's called the forgotten orifice.

So people say, oh, your Ted talk, the hidden orifice, the secret orifice, missing orifice. I mean, it's always like, I don't know which orifice it is. The forgotten north is the hidden north is I don't think so. I don't know. I'm not going to talk about that or.

Oh, my gosh, but that came about Mandy because what I did, my master's, I wrote my master's thesis. I call it the forgotten orifice because I was in a medical school master's program. And I'm the only dentist. So they really didn't talk about the mouth. It was a functional medicine program. They didn't talk about the math.

And I was always like, wait, there's the math, oh, lately we need to do some DNA testing here. There's the math. And so by that time, they were like, oh my gosh, not you again. And then it's like the forgotten, or if this is really funny, it's been a lot of fun, but it has, you know, if your listeners want to watch it, it's 14 minutes.

And I think it has a hundred thousand views. It's pretty, it's just a kick.

It's interesting.

Mandy52:46

I like that. Um, it's also on your website, right? Yeah. I think that's where I watched it. So sweet. Anything else that you would like to leave our listeners with a valuable lesson? A word that keeps you going favorite? Quote, a joke. Anything that.

Dr. Ozment53:01

I think I would like to leave people with a reframing healthy. You've probably experienced this people say, oh, Mandy, you're healthy. Like it's a bad thing. Or like it

Mandy53:12

Oh, that's your food that you have to eat right.

Dr. Ozment53:17

Ruining your life. And, uh, so the, I think I would want people to know, you know, being healthy does not need to be confusing, expensive and no fun. I mean, it is going to give you more fun or more energy, and it's really just finding how, what your design is and living by how your body is designed.

Mandy53:43

Right.

Dr. Ozment53:44

And, um, so I would just want people to know that it's really worth it because you're never going to regret feeling great.

Mandy53:54

Like, yeah. Sometimes I wonder if. Low self worth is what keeps them from pursuing any health or advocating for themselves in their health.

Dr. Ozment54:05

I think you're absolutely right. I also don't.

You wonder Mandy, if people sometimes think this is my known territory of having headaches or having chronic constipation or

Mandy54:18

it's familiar,

Dr. Ozment54:19

it's familiar. So they, they are just scared of getting out of their comfort zone almost. And if they feel good, then maybe more is expected. They need to expect more of their life.

I don't know. But, uh, I think that's a big element. I think you've hit on something very important.

Mandy54:39

I think so. And then also I've discovered, and I D I mean, this was, I'm talking about myself here is like, sometimes it takes. A diagnosis that is not beautiful. Yeah. Just slap you upside the face and go, hello, you need to do something about taking care of your body.

You only get one, you know, I get one on this earth.

Dr. Ozment55:00

Yes.

Mandy55:00

And so this is what I have to work with. So I need to make sure that I'm, I'm using it properly. I'm nourishing it as, you know, as much as I, you know, doing what you know. Right. That's good for you. But yeah, I think those are that's key. And I see people now, um, just friends or family or whatever, and I think my heart breaks for them because I know what path they're on because I was on the same path of just your body just is being destroyed basically little by little and you're just letting it happen.

And I was letting it happen. And in the back of my mind, I'm like, oh, I know I should be getting up and going for a walk. Or I know I should be, shouldn't be eating all these fourth plate of chicken nachos or whatever. But I think at times, sometimes it has to do with so forth and it has to do with the whole, it, sometimes it has to stop you in the face until we decide to do something.

And until you decide to do something about it until you have that, why then you're going to, you know, and then I try. So I try really hard not to like give unsolicited advice or, you know, anything like that to friends or family, just because, I mean, I just let them know this is my journey. And if they see any of my posts or whatever, we talk about it, whatever.

And, um, but I mean, I'm, I have people that have been reaching out to. Asking me questions, people that I didn't really even know were seeing my posts and stuff, but they're asking me questions because they've had the same kind of situation going on different symptoms that I had and just struggling and not, not getting the answers that they need.

So,

Dr. Ozment56:35

and I think that's where people go through your vision board process. It's really excellent because if you can see it there and you know that something you want for you, that's so powerful. And people have to also know they can't look to their friends and family for support necessarily because generally well, meaning friends and family kind of wants you to stay like you are.

Mandy56:59

Yeah. Because it makes them feel better. Or, you know, they, they feel bad about themselves or feel shame or guilt, which I hate that because that's what keeps you bound. That's what keeps you the fear of the shame, the guilt that keeps you from stepping forward and being brave, like you were saying earlier, It's like, how do I, you know, how do you get to a point where, like, now I really want to just inspire you to do what's right for your own body and for your own health.

I don't want to make you feel bad about yourself. I don't wanna make you feel shame or guilt that's cause that's completely counterproductive. It's totally what the devil wants you to listen to. You know, so, you know, I hope that I hope that anybody listening and that anybody who sees my posts about, you know, health or whatever, hopefully, you know me enough to know my heart, that I'm, I would never try to dissuade you from doing anything that's positive for yourself.

And I would never judge you for not doing those things. Cause we all have to get to a point where we make that decision ourselves.

Dr. Ozment57:57

And I think people will waver on the decision because I think, oh, I don't have time to be perfect.

Mandy58:02

No, it's not about perfection.

Dr. Ozment58:05

That if they just, if they just make one little, you know, one little incremental change, it might be all their body needs to, to really start healing and to get on the.

Uh, get that momentum.

Mandy58:18

Yes. And then when you have that momentum and you're like, oh my gosh. Okay. Well, if I did that one little thing that can do this other little thing, you know, we take baby steps. If you have to. I dove in head first after my diagnosis is and started doing the AIP diet and stuff, as well as I knew how at the time.

Um, but yeah, it's uh, yeah, brain fog just kicked in because I don't remember what I was going to say.

Dr. Ozment58:43

You're amazing. You're a great interviewer. You keep it going.

Mandy58:47

Thank you. I try. I've learned a lot. I mean, this, I think this is about the 51st or 52nd. I've only just learned these

Dr. Ozment58:56

were solo. So you,

Mandy59:00

yeah, I mean, I did, there's solos are kind of sprinkled throughout, but mostly in the interviews, the interviews are more fun, but, uh,

Dr. Ozment59:08

I've never done an interview. I mean, I've never been the interviewer,

Mandy59:12

right? How can our listeners get ahold of you or connect with.

Dr. Ozment59:16

Uh, the best way is through my website, Dr. Debbie osman.com. It's Debbie, just email me, actually. Debbie, D E B B I E at Dr. Debbie osman.com, D R D E B B I E O Z M E N t.com. I'm not that great at like Facebook or anything like that at this point. So it's, it's better to go. Just email me.

Mandy59:43

Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. So awesome. So is there anything else you want to jump on or talk about really quickly before we go?

Dr. Ozment59:51

Thank you, Mandy, for having me, it's just, it's been a kick.,

well, good.

Mandy59:55

I know. That's the thing. That's such a fun thing about being a podcast host is being able to talk to all different people and, and enjoying that conversation. And especially during times where, you know, COVID and being at home a lot and stuff like that, like, I don't get to talk to very many people.

Dr. Ozment01:00:13

Yeah, it's been very relaxing. Thank you so much.

Mandy01:00:16

Good. I'm glad you enjoyed it. So, all right, well, we're going to sign off. Thank you so much for being here and I appreciate your time so much.

Please subscribe to this podcast. So you don't miss any upcoming episodes and share it with three friends that could use some encouragement and remember to dream big and kick ass.